Round 4 - Grand Prix of Indianapolis
"Pagen-Yes!"
The inaugural GP of Indianapolis, well for Indycar at least, took place this last weekend, and after a standing start that reminded us that series diversity is great, but it doesn't always work, Simon Pagenuad won ahead of Ryan Hunter-Reay and a hard charging Helio Castoneves, with the top two barely having a drop of fuel left by the time the chequered flag waved.
This weeks contributors - Grieg Cardwell, Chris Daly, Matt Shaw, Richard Topham, Niko Gouloumis, Callum Hosty, Rory Brevitt, Martin Chappers, Adrian Rees and George O'Donnell.
This weeks contributors - Grieg Cardwell, Chris Daly, Matt Shaw, Richard Topham, Niko Gouloumis, Callum Hosty, Rory Brevitt, Martin Chappers, Adrian Rees and George O'Donnell.
What do you feel can be done to improve Indycar's standing starts?
Standing chaos (C.Jones)
GC - Practice, practice and practice. Im not sure if it is true or not, but I have heard Indycar drivers aren't allowed to practice starts. Also more thorough marshalling. I counted nearly 5 seconds between the lights going off and the marshal next to Sebastian Saavedra feebly waving a yellow flag. This is one of the few things Indycar can learn from F1.
CD - The flagmen need to be more aggressive with the yellows when someone stalls. Whenever it used to happen in F1, there would be a million yellows waved from all positions.
MS - I think the problem was no run off to the sides and a VERY late yellow flag. Not sure if they have any kind of anti stall like F1? If not then it's an idea for the future if they continue with the standing starts.
NG - I think they need to be seriously reviewed if a driver can do absolutely everything right and the car still stall on the grid.
CH - Nothing to do with the procedure, but to make the clutch system more conducive to doing standing starts. There appears to be a lot of problems with stalling!
RB - I believe they should only be used on the street and road course races IF they need to be used I don't think this was a race that needed a standing start to be honest.
MC - Standing starts are exciting and I am a big fan so for starters I don't think they should be ditched. As for improving them it all comes down to the clutch and making sure the cars don't stall. That will come with more testing and time to develop. Remember F1 up until the late 90's saw regular issues off a start. When a car stalls at the front then a big crash will always happen. Personally I am surprised that Indycar doesn't have some type of anti-stall like F1 cars do to prevent/lower the chance of a car staying on the grid.
AR - Only attempt them in places where they need to use them, Long Beach for instance has always had trouble getting a proper rolling start executed in one go. The standing start they did this year helped fix that. There have been times when they've got their standing starts horrendously wrong, but which series hasn't suffered that? If they intend to use standing starts for all the road and street courses, then they need to be better marshalled. None of them were observing for stalled cars, and when a flag finally went up it was too late.
GOD - To me it seems like the problem today was with the software. It failed on two of the cars which isn't good enough. It appears to me that more testing and practice is required to iron out all the issues.
CD - The flagmen need to be more aggressive with the yellows when someone stalls. Whenever it used to happen in F1, there would be a million yellows waved from all positions.
MS - I think the problem was no run off to the sides and a VERY late yellow flag. Not sure if they have any kind of anti stall like F1? If not then it's an idea for the future if they continue with the standing starts.
NG - I think they need to be seriously reviewed if a driver can do absolutely everything right and the car still stall on the grid.
CH - Nothing to do with the procedure, but to make the clutch system more conducive to doing standing starts. There appears to be a lot of problems with stalling!
RB - I believe they should only be used on the street and road course races IF they need to be used I don't think this was a race that needed a standing start to be honest.
MC - Standing starts are exciting and I am a big fan so for starters I don't think they should be ditched. As for improving them it all comes down to the clutch and making sure the cars don't stall. That will come with more testing and time to develop. Remember F1 up until the late 90's saw regular issues off a start. When a car stalls at the front then a big crash will always happen. Personally I am surprised that Indycar doesn't have some type of anti-stall like F1 cars do to prevent/lower the chance of a car staying on the grid.
AR - Only attempt them in places where they need to use them, Long Beach for instance has always had trouble getting a proper rolling start executed in one go. The standing start they did this year helped fix that. There have been times when they've got their standing starts horrendously wrong, but which series hasn't suffered that? If they intend to use standing starts for all the road and street courses, then they need to be better marshalled. None of them were observing for stalled cars, and when a flag finally went up it was too late.
GOD - To me it seems like the problem today was with the software. It failed on two of the cars which isn't good enough. It appears to me that more testing and practice is required to iron out all the issues.
What did you make of the event as a whole and the race in general with the changes to the track from the old F1 layout?
Packed mounds were all around the new track (J.Haines)
GC - I think the racing action seemed to flow better than the old layout. Admittedly, there weren't too many main overtaking places - T1 seemed to be the major one.
CD - The track flows a lot better than the old F1 circuit, and the improvements to the corners made passing a lot easier and created some great moments. While people may call for the curbs to be re-profiled after the Plowman / Montagny incident, that sort of thing did happen with Dario at Brazil 2012, so those kinds of accidents are uncommon enough to not warrant changes.
MS - The track seems a lot quicker, I liked it a lot. The event itself seems like a perfect warm up for the 500, with the teams sticking around for the big one.
RT - Its great, like the old airport tracks with lots of width for overtakes. Didn't really see much of the battles apart from the restarts as per usual the TV coverage was spoiled by adverts. Just to continue on the TV coverage, for me it was clear that Pagenaud was in prime position yet they focussed on Helio who it was clear wasn't making any progress after his final pit, getting unlapped by Dixon and couldn't catch RHR.
NG - I really like the new layout, the cars looked racey and fast and there was plenty of opportunity for overtaking. It certainly didn't feel like this was the same place that hosts the Indianapolis 500 trying to put on a cheap bonus race.
CH - I thought it was a great addition to the IndyCar calendar, something different at somewhere enshrined in the series' history. The race itself was very interesting with strategy keeping the race fascinating until the chequered flag. I personally prefer this layout to the old F1 track and the MotoGP layout. It was strange seeing a road course layout without the first oval turn used, after seeing F1 do it year after year! But this new layout is great for overtaking and I would even think if you want F1 to break into America that IMS' new road course should be the second layout and not New Jersey!
RB - I had my doubts when the race was first announced but after watching it, the track layout is spot on the chicane gives the drivers a great run down the back straight that they wouldn't have if they used the F1 layout.
MC - I like the track, wide enough for exciting racing with plenty of run off in case a car runs wide or has an accident. It is for sure a more streamlined version of the old F1 track and I think it works. I can honestly see F1 rethinking about Indy in the future if that track continues to provide exciting racing.
AR - Its a shame they dont take the final turn flat out like F1 used to, but I can probably guess, and understand, why they did that. Also bypassing the original turn 5-6-7 section in favour of a left-right flick onto Hullman Boulevard seemed to be an improvement, but they did mention in the "Tour of the new track" video online that they were "expecting to see cars bounce over the kerbs like surfers paradise, that didnt happen as they didn't make it narrow enough.
GOD - It was a very exciting race, and the track was very racy. I'm impressed with INDYCAR and IMS given how well the changes worked to improve the racing compared to F1.
CD - The track flows a lot better than the old F1 circuit, and the improvements to the corners made passing a lot easier and created some great moments. While people may call for the curbs to be re-profiled after the Plowman / Montagny incident, that sort of thing did happen with Dario at Brazil 2012, so those kinds of accidents are uncommon enough to not warrant changes.
MS - The track seems a lot quicker, I liked it a lot. The event itself seems like a perfect warm up for the 500, with the teams sticking around for the big one.
RT - Its great, like the old airport tracks with lots of width for overtakes. Didn't really see much of the battles apart from the restarts as per usual the TV coverage was spoiled by adverts. Just to continue on the TV coverage, for me it was clear that Pagenaud was in prime position yet they focussed on Helio who it was clear wasn't making any progress after his final pit, getting unlapped by Dixon and couldn't catch RHR.
NG - I really like the new layout, the cars looked racey and fast and there was plenty of opportunity for overtaking. It certainly didn't feel like this was the same place that hosts the Indianapolis 500 trying to put on a cheap bonus race.
CH - I thought it was a great addition to the IndyCar calendar, something different at somewhere enshrined in the series' history. The race itself was very interesting with strategy keeping the race fascinating until the chequered flag. I personally prefer this layout to the old F1 track and the MotoGP layout. It was strange seeing a road course layout without the first oval turn used, after seeing F1 do it year after year! But this new layout is great for overtaking and I would even think if you want F1 to break into America that IMS' new road course should be the second layout and not New Jersey!
RB - I had my doubts when the race was first announced but after watching it, the track layout is spot on the chicane gives the drivers a great run down the back straight that they wouldn't have if they used the F1 layout.
MC - I like the track, wide enough for exciting racing with plenty of run off in case a car runs wide or has an accident. It is for sure a more streamlined version of the old F1 track and I think it works. I can honestly see F1 rethinking about Indy in the future if that track continues to provide exciting racing.
AR - Its a shame they dont take the final turn flat out like F1 used to, but I can probably guess, and understand, why they did that. Also bypassing the original turn 5-6-7 section in favour of a left-right flick onto Hullman Boulevard seemed to be an improvement, but they did mention in the "Tour of the new track" video online that they were "expecting to see cars bounce over the kerbs like surfers paradise, that didnt happen as they didn't make it narrow enough.
GOD - It was a very exciting race, and the track was very racy. I'm impressed with INDYCAR and IMS given how well the changes worked to improve the racing compared to F1.
Should Indycar re-evaluate there restart procedure with the addition of zones that have caused issues in the opening rounds?
The cars came 4 by 4 (D.Incadela)
GC - There is always confusion over when the field can restart. There needs to be more clarification, perhaps going to what F1 used to have where the leader dictates the pace and cars cannot overtake until they have crossed the line.
CD - The issue is not with the restart zones, it's the drivers in the back getting impatient. NASCAR is able to get it right with restart zones, why can't IndyCar?
MS - Yes I believe this issue need addressing. They could either make it like a rolling start, or preferably they should change this to be more like the safety car restarts in f1, like one of the drivers said - this is not NASCAR. They can't use their bumpers to get nose to tail.
RT - Im not sure theyre wrong, there must be a better way of policing it if its a safety issue. Montoya was the only one that caused a problem and its clear he made a mistake. Double file is great but too much carnage/safety issues.
NG - Yes. Although it's the drivers that are jumping the start and making ambitious moves, you can't legislate for that. Someone is always going to try and risk the consequences. Better to go back to double-file and where single-file is necessary remove the mandated zones. The leader has already lost their advantage by bunching up the pack, they should at least get something back in being able to choose when to go.
CH - Absolutely, Graham Rahal put it perfectly when he said IndyCar "not NASCAR" and therefore causes problems when open wheel cars get too close. I would revert to an F1 style of restart with the lead driver able to call when he wants to go before a Safety Car line where afterwards is considered Green flag territory. Honestly, I just feel it's a well intentioned plan to improve safety and the spectacle gone wrong, I can't blame them for trying!
RB - Yes definitely, it's the second race this season that a crash has happened on a restart because it's been backed up because the leader hasn't put the power down because they haven't got to a restart zone yet, if a driver at the back of the line is told over his radio "green flag go go go" he does exactly that and then he ends up hitting someone who hasn't been told to go over their radio.
MC - I have said every week I persoanlly hate single file restarts. Once again more problems than they are worth. On a track as wide as Indy there is room for double-file restarts. I can understand on maybe the tighter road courses when there just isn't the room to safely have proper double file but Indy can cope. Look at previous years and restarts really weren't too much of an issue, it was more down towards turn one. They really need to sort it out as too often when one caution comes out I am expecting another one as soon as they try and restart and ruins exciting racing.
AR - They should be proud enough to admit that not enough was done to avoid what happened at the start. They shouldn't have put the "Acceleration Zone" in the rules in the first place. Double File restarts are not the answer either, remember, this is not NASCAR. Just get the safety car back to the pits and let the leader decide when to floor it after the final turn. Simple As.
GOD - Maybe. I think the restarts need to be faster, because it appears now that there can be quite a difference in speed between the cars at the restart. They are also far closer together than they were in previous years which is causing a lot of trouble.
CD - The issue is not with the restart zones, it's the drivers in the back getting impatient. NASCAR is able to get it right with restart zones, why can't IndyCar?
MS - Yes I believe this issue need addressing. They could either make it like a rolling start, or preferably they should change this to be more like the safety car restarts in f1, like one of the drivers said - this is not NASCAR. They can't use their bumpers to get nose to tail.
RT - Im not sure theyre wrong, there must be a better way of policing it if its a safety issue. Montoya was the only one that caused a problem and its clear he made a mistake. Double file is great but too much carnage/safety issues.
NG - Yes. Although it's the drivers that are jumping the start and making ambitious moves, you can't legislate for that. Someone is always going to try and risk the consequences. Better to go back to double-file and where single-file is necessary remove the mandated zones. The leader has already lost their advantage by bunching up the pack, they should at least get something back in being able to choose when to go.
CH - Absolutely, Graham Rahal put it perfectly when he said IndyCar "not NASCAR" and therefore causes problems when open wheel cars get too close. I would revert to an F1 style of restart with the lead driver able to call when he wants to go before a Safety Car line where afterwards is considered Green flag territory. Honestly, I just feel it's a well intentioned plan to improve safety and the spectacle gone wrong, I can't blame them for trying!
RB - Yes definitely, it's the second race this season that a crash has happened on a restart because it's been backed up because the leader hasn't put the power down because they haven't got to a restart zone yet, if a driver at the back of the line is told over his radio "green flag go go go" he does exactly that and then he ends up hitting someone who hasn't been told to go over their radio.
MC - I have said every week I persoanlly hate single file restarts. Once again more problems than they are worth. On a track as wide as Indy there is room for double-file restarts. I can understand on maybe the tighter road courses when there just isn't the room to safely have proper double file but Indy can cope. Look at previous years and restarts really weren't too much of an issue, it was more down towards turn one. They really need to sort it out as too often when one caution comes out I am expecting another one as soon as they try and restart and ruins exciting racing.
AR - They should be proud enough to admit that not enough was done to avoid what happened at the start. They shouldn't have put the "Acceleration Zone" in the rules in the first place. Double File restarts are not the answer either, remember, this is not NASCAR. Just get the safety car back to the pits and let the leader decide when to floor it after the final turn. Simple As.
GOD - Maybe. I think the restarts need to be faster, because it appears now that there can be quite a difference in speed between the cars at the restart. They are also far closer together than they were in previous years which is causing a lot of trouble.
Driver of the Day - Jack Hawksworth # 98 BHA
Leading the field (M.Harding)
A unanimous vote with 100% of the votes, with some honourable mentions to Helio Castroneves and Pagenaud. The young Englishman (who doesn't sound like Nigel Mansell) started on the front row lead for the majority of the race, and only yellow flags during his pit window lost him a potential race win during his rookie season.
"It was a shame. We had the race under such good control in the beginning. The car was perfect. We got lost in that yellow and then we got shuffled back. It cost us some points. It's disappointing because we could have won the race. It was and IndyCar race and anything can happen. We just have to move on to the next race. The car was okay late, I pushed so hard on the rights. We did our best. I feel good about the oval; it will be a different challenge. We will be back with a good car as usual."
And some comments from our reviewers...
GOD - Impossible to tell that Jack Hawksworth was a rookie from watching that race.
AR - Front row start, Lead for a while, before the glut of yellows ruined his chances, and if he's "Like Nigel Mansell" as Eddie Cheever suggests, then he needs to grow a moustache, because that's where Nigel got his powers.
RB - If it wasn't for having to pit for fuel and new tyres with 12/13 laps to go I think he'd have been up there with Castroneves trying to chase down Hunter-Reay and Pagenaud
RT - Only his 4th race and he's mixing it every race with the old guys.
"It was a shame. We had the race under such good control in the beginning. The car was perfect. We got lost in that yellow and then we got shuffled back. It cost us some points. It's disappointing because we could have won the race. It was and IndyCar race and anything can happen. We just have to move on to the next race. The car was okay late, I pushed so hard on the rights. We did our best. I feel good about the oval; it will be a different challenge. We will be back with a good car as usual."
And some comments from our reviewers...
GOD - Impossible to tell that Jack Hawksworth was a rookie from watching that race.
AR - Front row start, Lead for a while, before the glut of yellows ruined his chances, and if he's "Like Nigel Mansell" as Eddie Cheever suggests, then he needs to grow a moustache, because that's where Nigel got his powers.
RB - If it wasn't for having to pit for fuel and new tyres with 12/13 laps to go I think he'd have been up there with Castroneves trying to chase down Hunter-Reay and Pagenaud
RT - Only his 4th race and he's mixing it every race with the old guys.
Race Rating - 3.5 Stars
A solid if not fully spectacular race, a little chaos, procession and tension towards the end as fuel and strategy took over.
